Coffee With E

Overcoming the Stigma: Understanding Postpartum Mental Health

• Erica Rawls

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What if the joy of motherhood isn't as instantaneous as society expects it to be? In our latest episode, we sit down with Dr. Taylor Bryant, a trauma recovery coach specializing in maternal mental health, to tackle the hard-hitting realities of postpartum depression and rage. We challenge the unrealistic portrayals of motherhood, uncovering the intense emotions and struggles that often go undiscussed. Through personal stories and expert insights, we shed light on the stigma that keeps many mothers silent and encourage the open conversations necessary for healing.

Listeners will uncover the significance of recognizing postpartum depression symptoms, which can far exceed the common "baby blues." We explore the pressures that come with the expectation of constant happiness and delve into the importance of self-care as a vital component of mental well-being. Dr. Bryant provides crucial guidance on managing these challenges, emphasizing the importance of support systems and professional help if needed. We also highlight the transformative power of sharing responsibilities within partnerships, breaking away from traditional parenting roles to foster stronger, more supportive relationships.

Join us in understanding the intricacies of postpartum mental health and its impact on the entire family dynamic. We delve into the emotional hurdles faced by mothers, especially those whose identities are closely tied to professional roles. Addressing feelings of inadequacy and imposter syndrome, we discuss tools like feelings monitoring forms and the role of community in shared healing. As Dr. Bryant reassures those struggling, remember that you're not alone. Links to support groups and resources are provided for those seeking guidance or wishing to support loved ones through their postpartum journeys.

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Taylor Bryant:

The postpartum rage is something that a lot of moms I found out through my mommy gang group is something that a lot of moms feel but have a lot of shame around. You can become easily triggered or overstimulated by the things in your environment and you just snap Right and you don't know what you're saying, you don't know who you're hurting, it just comes out like dagger mouth. You know venom, yeah, and that's something that I struggled with Again. When you're a mom, everybody comes first and you come last. But if you're deteriorating and you can't keep yourself together and you think you're only in your own little box, you're not impacting everybody else. You are.

Erica Rawls:

Welcome to another episode of Keeping it Real, where we have real conversations with extraordinary people in multi-million dollar homes, and today I'm excited about this conversation. But first I'm Erica Rawls and I need to let you know something this podcast is supported by three companies as of today Top Construction, Allstate Insurance, as well as Sp Fidelis Mortgage, as well as my own real estate business. Now the topic we're going to discuss is something that most people don't like talking about, but we actually need to. When it comes to women and their changes that they go through after giving birth is sometimes very traumatic, but they don't know what to do, they don't know who to turn to and most oftentimes, they deal with it alone. Today, I'm going to be joined with Dr Taylor Bryant, who specializes in just that. Let's get into it, y'all. Thank you for having me. You are so welcome. I'm excited to have this conversation because I remember when I was having children and I would go through all of the crazy emotions Afterwards. Just even like the smallest little sound would trigger a breakdown.

Taylor Bryant:

Yes, so can we help the people today? We can help the people today. I think all moms need to tune into this, and I feel like there's a message for every single mom that's going to watch this today.

Erica Rawls:

Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, okay, yes, so I wanted to start with the question. No, first I want to give you your flowers, if you don't mind, okay? Dr Bryant, she's actually a trauma recovery coach and she's dedicated to supporting mothers through their postpartum journeys. She's a she has a powerful story of her own, which we're going to share as well, and also talks about the postpartum depression and transforming that experience into a passion that she's actually using to help others. So, with her extensive background in forensic psychology right, yes? And her mission to advocate for prenatal mental health, I'm excited to share some valuable information. I did not want people to know like, hey, okay, who is this woman? Is she qualified? I was like no, let me take a step back before we go into any further, because you are doing the darn thing for people, thank you, and I think you're doing it so humbly as well. So can you share with us some key signs and symptoms of postpartum depression that mothers should be aware of, and how can they recognize these signs?

Taylor Bryant:

Absolutely so. I wanted to start with providing a definition of maternal mental health, and I'm going to read straight from this because I want the people to know yeah, maternal mental health refers to the emotional, psychological and social well-being of a mother during her pregnancy, childbirth and then the after part of a mother during her pregnancy, childbirth and then the after part.

Taylor Bryant:

So, like you mentioned earlier, when you become a mom, so many things can change. But before that, when you watch TV, the videos, the movies, society tells you that motherhood is just this beautiful thing. It comes naturally. You're going to instantly connect with your child.

Erica Rawls:

Sorry.

Taylor Bryant:

It's the instant part. Yeah, it is. You're going to instantly connect with them and that labor is just like and the baby's out, Right, Right. So many different misconceptions, but nonetheless, when the baby comes, you're supposed to be happy. Baby comes, you're supposed to be happy. So when moms don't experience that overwhelming joy, that overwhelming happiness in the beginning, a lot of shame tends to come in. And what comes with shame? We are embarrassed to share our stories. We keep it all to ourselves. So can I share the impacts too? Before I get into symptoms Women that have postpartum depression.

Taylor Bryant:

It really impacts the child's development as well. So we start to see changes in their behaviors, changes in their emotions and changes in how they go on to connect and relate to other people. Which is why it's important for a mom, when she's realizing these key symptoms in herself, to get that help, because it not only impacts you, it trickles down to your kids as well. And my favorite saying is the house falls apart without mom. If mom's not okay, the family's not okay. And if you've been on an airplane before, they say put that mask on yourself before you turn and help somebody else. That's how motherhood is. You've got to make sure you're okay, Some of the key signs and symptoms. There's a lot. Where should I start? Let's start from the beginning.

Erica Rawls:

Let's do it. Let's do it yeah.

Taylor Bryant:

The first one is let me get into this fatigue and low energy.

Erica Rawls:

That's part of the postpartum depression. That's not from delivering a baby, Because I always thought it was from me delivering babies life in general too.

Taylor Bryant:

Right, yeah, life in general. Yes, so there's something called the baby blues. After you have your baby, for the up to the first, like two ish, three ish weeks, it's considerable to see tearfulness, to be tired, to be exhausted and overwhelmed. That, you can say, is pretty normal for a new motherhood, or new moms again, um. But when you see these symptoms persist past that four-week period is when it develops into postpartum depression. These symptoms are more intense. So, yes, of course that low energy and fatigue is something that comes with being a mom, but if it's just impacting you in your day, the majority of your day, that's a key sign. Then you have people saying well, my baby doesn't sleep, so how do we include that in? There's a reason why they say that sleep deprivation is a war tactic. Oh, really, yeah, when you don't sleep, it can be equated to driving drunk in terms of your cognitive impairments. You don't see things as accurately as you should, you don't process as quickly as normal, so it can become a problem.

Erica Rawls:

Wow, and that's why some people need to be medicated yes, in order to get the proper sleep. Yep, so that they're able to function. Yep, wow, okay, and how long does this like this postpartum like? Like, how long does it last there?

Taylor Bryant:

is different research. They say the postpartum period is anywhere, or postpartum depression four weeks through a year, but new research is saying it can last up to seven years, like the impacts of postpartum depression on maternal mental health. Really, it's really prevalent within the first two years.

Erica Rawls:

So then that's why we hear some people say you know what, ever since I had my child, I haven't felt like myself yes, yes, wow. And I guess to that person that right now may be watching and may feel like, oh my gosh, yeah, I'm not feeling like myself, or it's a shame, because they may not be able to love their child the way that they want to Like. What are we saying to them? What can we say to them?

Taylor Bryant:

I always say to all my clients, all the mommies that I work with, you have to afford yourself grace. I think, as women, mothers, black women in general you're just used to being that super woman and I have to do all the time for everybody, but you're burning the candle at both ends.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah.

Taylor Bryant:

And then when you're trying to prioritize and figure out who comes first, what comes first, you're always last, and that can really have some detrimental impacts on your mental health, especially on the motherhood journey. So you have to afford yourself grace. This is brand new. You're bringing a human into this world who you don't know. Right Like you, of course, they grew inside your belly. Right, you can feel their little kicks. You're excited to see the sonograms and the heartbeats. You're excited for all of that. But when the child is like in your arms, you're like, oh crap, I'm now responsible to keep this little human being alive.

Erica Rawls:

Right, and that's even if you have like this is your first one, your second one, your third, you're still like oh crap.

Taylor Bryant:

It's a stranger. What do I do with this thing? Yes, yeah, a hundred percent.

Erica Rawls:

So what are some like misconceptions about postpartum I have?

Taylor Bryant:

a lot of misconceptions. As we opened up the, you should feel happy all the time. Society just wants you to be like. Here's my child, I'm so happy. I'm going on family vacations. We're doing this together, yeah, look at me, look at me yeah.

Taylor Bryant:

But behind closed doors. If you're telling yourself I should, which is a cognitive distortion, I should feel happy all the time. When you don't, then comes that shame it comes. That then follows that guilt, then anger, sometimes for people. It just depends on what your emotional range is. You shouldn't be happy all the time. You're human Right. There's going to be different situations that pop up that make you feel frustrated. Some people that are there to help you. They might not meet your expectations, so that can cause you to feel not happy or a lack of joy. And just simply having a newborn in general, you know the roller coasters of that. When they're crying, you don't know what their needs are at first. So you have to discern are they sleepy, are they hungry, is it gassy? And sometimes you can't figure that out right away and that takes away from the I should feel happy all the time. I should know what's going on all the time. It's a common misconception.

Erica Rawls:

Is there a type of person that may suffer from postpartum versus another type of person?

Taylor Bryant:

That's a good question. I recall I'm going to share a personal story. I recall those classes that they make you take before you have the kids. My husband and I went and they did this lovely presentation on what is postpartum depression, and by lovely I'm very sarcastic, it was just a quick, like two slides and on to baby proofing the house, right, oh God. Yes, they list the risk factors.

Taylor Bryant:

So if you have a prior history of mental health, lack of support, your socioeconomic status, so the amount of money that you have coming in, those type of risk factors can increase your chance of developing postpartum depression. I'm over here thinking, oh, I'm married, we're doing well financially, I have a lot of support. I'm not even worried about postpartum depression. Wow, and it hit me. It hit me big time, wow. So to answer that question, I just say it's relative. It impacts everybody differently. It doesn't matter the risk factors. Of course you want to see if you have any of those to be aware of, is this going to come out in you on your motherhood journey. But if you don't have any of those risk factors, it doesn't mean that you're not at risk for developing it.

Erica Rawls:

Right, right. Is there a way for us to know, like even before you have the child, that, hey, like I'm feeling kind of like I may need to talk to somebody, so yes, there is a way.

Taylor Bryant:

If in your pregnancy, you're feeling very anxious, very on edge, angry just the emotional roller coaster of it or having intrusive thoughts, like those thoughts that come into your mind that can be considered dangerous, depending on if you take action on them or not. You do want to get help because the symptoms can exacerbate once the baby is here. There's new things to worry about once the baby is here the child care again, the sleep deprivation, anger, irritability, the thoughts of harming yourself it tends to. If you're experiencing mental health struggles before the baby is here, I would definitely seek professional help to prevent the intensity of the symptoms once the baby is here.

Erica Rawls:

Right right Now, for those that have partners in their lives, what is the best way for their partners to support? You know their significant other as they're going through?

Taylor Bryant:

I want to. Is it okay if I continue to pull in like personals Okay?

Erica Rawls:

Yes, honey, this is keeping it real. Keeping it real, I love it, that's right.

Taylor Bryant:

I'm going to keep it real. My husband and I kind of broke the stereotypical of what mom is supposed to do, what dad is supposed to do, okay. So normally the father goes to work, comes home, that's it. That's what we tend to see. Oh, the baby's crying overnight. Mom can get it. Just tap me on the shoulder if you need anything. Oh, nothing, okay, it's fine. He has been highly involved. We split the night. I do 10 to three, he does three to eight. So whichever one of our kids wakes up during that timeframe is our responsibility. So him just being there and knowing what my needs are has really, the second time around, transformed the way that postpartum depression or, in this case, rage has hit me. So for anybody with my second one, yeah.

Erica Rawls:

Wow.

Taylor Bryant:

Yeah, I can get into that too. I can keep it real with that too.

Erica Rawls:

No, seriously, dr Brian, that's important because there's women just like yourself Like, oh my gosh, I'm embarrassed because, yeah, I'm angry, yes, or I'm enraged, or who knows, throwing things. You know what I mean. So please just share what you choose to share. Ok, you have to help our audience.

Taylor Bryant:

Ok, okay, yep, to help our audience? Okay, yeah. So the postpartum rage is something that a lot of moms I found out through my mommy gang group is something that a lot of moms feel, but have a lot of shame around. You can become easily triggered or overstimulated by the things in your environment and you just snap Right and you don't know what you're saying, you don't know who you're hurting, it just comes out like dagger mouth. You know venom, yeah, and that's something that I struggled with.

Taylor Bryant:

So my first son he's two and a half years old. God bless his heart. He's just like his dad loud, doesn't listen. What else does my husband do that he does? He's a spitting image of him. Yeah, it was fine for me before baby Talia came, but now that she's here and she's cool, she's calm, she's collected, she sleeps. Any loud noise that my son, she's me, yeah, and we shared the same birthday. She was born on my birthday. Oh, that's awesome. So she's definitely her mom. She, she loves sleep, so do I. Same birthday. But any loud noise that he now makes it triggers me instantly and I can get so mean and I'm like, oh, I don't like that about myself. It sparked some curiosity in me to do some research and there's a huge gap with postpartum rage and postpartum anger. It's not studied a lot, so I asked in my mommy gang group which I can get into that too. Does any mom feel this way? I was providing some psychoeducation on postpartum rage. The biggest engagement that I received was with that post. Wow.

Erica Rawls:

So I went live about it. So, mommy gang, for those that don't know is a Facebook group that you created.

Taylor Bryant:

Yes, great, it's called Mommy Gang Trauma Recovery for the Postpartum Mother. Yeah, so any mom that has a past history of unresolved trauma and that is now kind of seeing that come out in motherhood is welcome to join this group. Even if you don't have a past history of trauma, there's a lot of things in there that you can learn about yourself, and I offer like coping skills or just tips to be able to work through.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, yeah, that is really good. So then, working through that, how did your partner? Were they supportive?

Taylor Bryant:

Oh man, this man was supportive. I can never divorce him like I tried to five times. Yeah, with my son I had postpartum depression.

Erica Rawls:

I love this so much, look y'all. So please know there's hope, okay, because they're still together. There's hope.

Taylor Bryant:

Yes.

Erica Rawls:

And she wanted to leave five times okay, it was probably more than that.

Taylor Bryant:

Yeah, it was probably more than that, yeah.

Erica Rawls:

That is too funny, yeah, so just keep hope alive, yeah. So, how did you work through that?

Taylor Bryant:

Yeah, how did you work through that. He really supported me and he understood that the woman that he was seeing is not the real woman. Do you know what I mean, who I was and who he knew me to be? He was aware that I'm in this new space of just having a baby. So not only are hormones changing, but I'm changing myself. I'm in a new role Loss of freedom.

Taylor Bryant:

You know, I can't just come and go as I want anymore, and I'm a big freedom person. My friends would say, hey, you want to go to the beach this weekend? Yep, now I got to ask my mom to watch. Like I'm back to asking mommy to go play again, right, so that can trigger some icky feelings for some people or for some women. But he just knew what my needs were and he was there for me the entire time and understood I'm in a different phase of my life. So when I would act up with the postpartum depression, he would call my mom and say your daughter's crazy, I need somebody to talk to, and my mom's an OBGYN. So she understood what he was going through and they would talk and he would then know how to come and help me, right. So that support changed a lot for me.

Erica Rawls:

So it's important to get support. Absolutely yeah. At what point is it necessary for someone actually at medicine to help?

Taylor Bryant:

I'm not a psychiatrist so I can't give advice on that. Ok, but if you feel like your symptoms are impacting majority of your day, it might be beneficial to speak with a psychiatrist about medication. Got it?

Erica Rawls:

Okay, okay, yeah, cause I think that's important because to know the difference is huge. So what were some of the tactics that you use to get through your, your depression?

Taylor Bryant:

At first I did have some shame around it, because I'm a psychologist myself. How am I struggling with my own mental health? I should, again a cognitive distortion be able to fix this on my own, sure, but doctors need doctors and therapists need therapists. So I just started talking about it, and that's actually how Mommy Gang was founded. I created this group. If I'm in this space and I'm feeling like motherhood is overwhelming, I'm not loving it like I'm supposed to at first. I'm feeling disconnected from this. I know there's other women out there that feel the same way. So what really helped me is to share my story and just be open and be vulnerable about every little step along the way, so that other moms can see that, oh, I feel that too. Oh, let me share my story. Let me get help myself, right?

Erica Rawls:

Right, and I do love that. And then is your is that group growing? Has it been growing?

Erica Rawls:

more you know after they see this Cause I think it's really important. So do you see a difference in, like, the age in which you have a child and how much of the postpartum depression that you have to deal with? Like do you see that, like, the younger you are, it's less traumatic as opposed to being older and having a child, traumatic as opposed to being older and having a child? Or is it okay someone that is like an hourly worker, if you will, as opposed to a professional right? Do you think that that plays a part into how traumatic your experience is going to be? I think at all, because you did say something about socioeconomic right, you did say that.

Taylor Bryant:

Yes, but have you seen it, I guess?

Erica Rawls:

Yes, yes, but have you seen it? I guess? What am I trying to ask? Ok, so have you seen it into? And then hold on, you're going to have to edit this because I lost my thought completely. Ok, just so you know, at this, at this point, right here. Yes, where was I?

Taylor Bryant:

going with that thought. I think you were asking mom brain, right, something just disappears.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, because you already addressed the socioeconomic. So that's what I was like wait, no, she already addressed it and that's why I started fumbling. I think you're looking at the age like the age. Yeah, the age. So it's not necessarily socioeconomics, it's age.

Taylor Bryant:

Well, it can be socioeconomics too, because access to resources and you already hit that though.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, so, but we didn't hit age, that's what it was. Ok, age, OK, all right, already been OK, all righty. So has it been your experience where you see that the younger you are, maybe the less traumatic the postpartum depression is versus someone that's older?

Taylor Bryant:

And the clients that I work with. Yes, I would say the younger moms tend to handle it better just because they haven't really experienced life just yet. Do you know what I mean? They haven't got into their career just yet, they haven't found themselves just yet, and when you have a child younger, it's easier to be like okay, well, this is just my role now, this is what I'm going to do. It doesn't mean that they won't develop postpartum depression, whereas if you have a mom such as myself I had my son at 30 and my daughter at 33. When you are more established, you have your career, you have your support systems around you you might think that it's going to be easier, but then that kid can come and make you feel as if life has stopped.

Taylor Bryant:

And that's not true for every mom. For the mommies that I work with, that's been a large part of their experience the older ones is that I had this good thing going and now it's like wait, how do I get back to my business? Or how do I get back to how high? Or how do I get back to that how high of the ladder I climbed and now everybody's looking at me like you're not here. I went on maternity leave and I lost my place in things. It can really make an older mom kind of feel like, well, what do I do now? Wow.

Erica Rawls:

So question hearing you say that, right in this platform that we are growing here, the community we're growing, is all about people that are passionate about self-development, mental well-being, right, and just living their full purpose. Is it possible that people that may suffer from postpartum depression, right, postpartum, postpartum what did I say? Departum, good Lord. Postpartum depression, is it possible? Is because, okay, from a professional standpoint, here they are, they're at the peak of their profession, right, and then they have a child? Right, because I heard you say at one point that, okay, with your son, it wasn't maybe that bad, but when you had your daughter, it was that bad, it came to anger.

Erica Rawls:

It came to anger, right, yes, so is it possible that some people may be struggling or may have postpartum depression because they attach their, maybe their professions, to their true identity? Yes, so then when this child comes in, they're like hold on. Now you're telling me I need to be a mom on top of that. Yes, so then they're like okay, so my self-worth is tied over here, and now you're telling me I have to do mommy duty.

Taylor Bryant:

Are you reading the research on this? Because yes.

Erica Rawls:

Are you serious? Yeah, I have not read any research.

Taylor Bryant:

That's why these conversations are pivotal, pivotal Wow See, now I'm going crazy with the words. It's pivotal because many moms feel this and they think this, but they don't say it because they don't want to be judged. They don't want to be judged.

Erica Rawls:

They don't want to be judged, especially to the mother that was not preparing to be a mom and decided to keep their child?

Taylor Bryant:

Yes, so when you think about attaching your identity to, let's say, you're a lawyer and you're just all about helping people, you're in court, you're defending or prosecuting, depending on you, know the role that you have, and then the kid comes. Or your child comes and now you have to be a mom, but you're not compared to what society would say. You're not like understanding what's wrong with your kid, you can't get them to sleep, you can't. You feel as if you're not meeting their needs and it's almost as if imposter syndrome creeps in and it's I'm not meeting, I'm not being able to do this.

Taylor Bryant:

Like, are people going to see that I'm struggling I didn't struggle over here, but I'm struggling with this and then you start to go down this rabbit hole and here's the intrusive thoughts. And those thoughts just keep going on and on. Am I good enough to do this? Yeah, are people actually seeing through and seeing that I'm incompetent at this? So yes, when you put your identity so much into one thing and then you quote, unquote, fail in another area, that's also a cognitive distortion. I can get into that for days, but it makes you feel like you're not good enough in anything.

Taylor Bryant:

And it trickles down. How do we overcome that? Get insulin?

Erica Rawls:

professional help. I hear you. You said come see Dr Bryant. Come see Dr Bryant. Yes, I hear you. So are there any techniques like, okay, yeah, um, in this moment I'm feeling that way, dr Bryant, what can I do? Like right now, I'm watching you. Please give me an answer.

Taylor Bryant:

I always give my clients, all of them, all of them. There's something called the feelings monitoring form and if you just go on Google and type in feelings monitoring form, it'll pop up and you can use it. But it helps you become aware of your feelings. So, when it comes to the human experience, our thoughts impact our feelings and impact our behaviors.

Taylor Bryant:

So if you're feeling as if I'm not good enough, it can make you feel insecure, inadequate, anxious, have some fear. So then your behaviors might be I'm going to withdraw, I'm not going to open up and share with anybody, I'm going to act out or whatever that looks like in people's behaviors. It's all connected, right. So you would track on that form, the triggering situation, how you felt, your thoughts behind it and the intensity, so you can start to see patterns in your behavior. You can start to see patterns of when you might be going into a mental breakdown along your motherhood journey, and that is awareness and acknowledgement. So once you're aware of that pattern and you acknowledge what's happening for you, you can then do something about it. So that's the first step, I would say.

Erica Rawls:

Good, good, yeah, because I think I just like having this conversation because, like you said, we're not having enough conversations at all about it. And then to the partners in the relationship we're not having enough conversations at all about it. And then to the partners in the relationship, they're like whoa, what in the world? What happened to my wife? Yes, right. And then for the toddler that may have, you know, a new sibling, like what happened to my mom, mm, hmm. So everyone is going through the effects of you know, your emotions. Yeah, so I think one give yourself grace, right? Yes, because no one has a manual to parenthood At all At all. So I think it's important to know that. Yeah, you're going to make mistakes, mm-hmm. So I think it's important to know that, yeah, you're going to make mistakes, and yet you still have an opportunity to to fix it.

Taylor Bryant:

Yes, right, as long as it's not. Or notice that you do need to have, you know, additional help on top of that. And there's there's no shame in asking for help. A lot of people feel if I ask for help then I'm incompetent. Asking for help. A lot of people feel if I ask for help, then I'm incompetent, I'm going to be judged. You know, I asked to have these kids. People are going to yeah, that's a big one.

Taylor Bryant:

I see that on social media all the time. Like a mom and especially in another mom group that I'm a part of, a mom will say, hey, I'm like low on funds, can somebody help me with this? My kids and I don't have food tonight, or we're about to lose our home because we can't pay rent, and it's you know the nasty comments. Well, you shouldn't have had all those kids or you should have thought before you, you know. So if you have that type of response possible, why would you say I need help? Fair, yeah, the world is mean, the world is very mean. But on the other end of that, like, you have to say what's happening for you and you have to ask for help from those people that you trust.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah.

Taylor Bryant:

And those people in your support group so that they can see you, hear you and then help you get to where you need to get to Right Right.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, yeah, I think. I think it's really, really important. So we talked about a little bit of some practical steps that someone could take. Is there any other steps that mothers could take in their healing journey that could be something that they can benefit from like right away?

Taylor Bryant:

Yes, so I think I wanted to speak to that. Yes, so I think it's important to not only seek professional help, but to prioritize self-care and rest. I think that's very important. Again, when you're a mom, everybody comes first and you come last. But if you're deteriorating and you can't keep yourself together and you think you're only in your own little box, you're not impacting everybody else. You are, yeah, and kids are highly intuitive. They can sense if something's going on with mom.

Erica Rawls:

They can be sad because they know that you're sad.

Taylor Bryant:

Yes.

Erica Rawls:

Like what's wrong?

Taylor Bryant:

I don't know, I'm just sad, yes, and then also to piggyback off of that. In your childhood you learn emotional development from your caregivers. So if mom is struggling emotionally, the kid is going to learn then how to pick up on that emotion and what to do with it. So if you're sad and you don't talk, then your child is likely going to be not sharing what's going on with them. When they're in a space to be able to communicate that they're going to not Wow.

Taylor Bryant:

Or if you're angry or have that rage and you're lashing out, you teach the child that when you're upset it's okay to lash out, to hit, to destroy, Right. So mom kind of has to get a hold of her own emotions and that can happen through self-care.

Taylor Bryant:

Right If you're able to just step away. Even if it's five minutes, I get it. I'm a mom of two. It's sometimes hard to find time. I try to we all get this step away and go to the bathroom. And he's knocking on the door. Mommy, what are you doing? Yeah, mommy, wash your hands, mom. I'm like, oh my gosh, can I just like literally three minutes, can I just? But finding time or finding something that is valuable to you, to get back and then asking for somebody to take care of the kids so that you can do, so, that you can rest to be the best version of yourself.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, I think that's important. I just think that, in general, yeah, and probably more important, as a mom, yeah, it really is A hundred percent, wow. So then, as far as how, okay, so you have your partner If people can't go, don't want to go, for help, I'm thinking, if you have friends that you can talk to, you have the mom group online and then, if you need to, I've heard of instances where it gets to the point where people are just like you know what, I don't even want this child anymore. So, when people get into that space and they get the help that they need, like, what do we do? Because it actually breaks my heart to think that, okay, you have a child that came into the world and they didn't ask to be here, right, and now you don't want the child.

Erica Rawls:

I think, from my, my opinion, right, Not a doctor at all, maybe do give it up for adoption and be felt as though that you're not able to give the help. And, honestly, that's another conversation people need to have. Yeah, right, yeah, because people again are ashamed of the fact that, no, I'm not worthy of having this child. Yeah, and if I give my child away, people know I had a baby. They're going to be asking where's the baby? Where's the baby Mm, hmm, and my thought is I'd rather have the child have a better chance with a loving family. Yeah, I agree To allow you to get the healing and maybe, just maybe, you can go back into the child's life at another time where you're healthy.

Taylor Bryant:

So when you have unresolved trauma, situations like that can pop up how your parents parented you, the generational trauma that can come through from that. So if you're feeling overwhelmed and you're used to avoiding or cutting and running, that might show up as a mom. When you're saying, when you have a mom that say I don't, I don't want this kid anymore, that can indicate that she's feeling lost, she's feeling like she has no help or support and then just that overwhelm like where do I go next? I don't have any support, the child is better off without me. So that's when you can seek, like outside help or outside agencies to help. But that kind of depending on the route that we take with that, like the postpartum psychosis that can come out, it's this child will be better off without me. Are we seeking to give this child to somebody else or are we having thoughts of harming ourselves and the child? Because that's a different conversation.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah.

Taylor Bryant:

Yeah, either. Either way, it can indicate that there's something happening for the mom's experience that needs to be addressed. You can't just shove that under the carpet, metaphorically, and just go on about your day, because one thing that we know about avoidance is it does work temporarily, but in the long term it always comes back to bite you in the butt.

Erica Rawls:

It doesn't go away, and just so I'm clear. So you're saying, by them wanting to give a child away, that's pretty much avoidance. It can be. It can be a symptom of avoidance and it may be a bigger trauma issue that they have to deal with at play. Yeah, and then I guess, how will we know that Like cause when you, some children, are here, you know, unfortunately, unintended, yeah, right, yeah, and it may be to the person that has that avoidance issue. So how do, how do we help that person?

Taylor Bryant:

I always suggest if you can and there's a whole bunch of you know shame behind this too reaching out to a professional or asking somebody that you trust and say can you come with me, can you like take my hand and take me to this place, because I'm having these thoughts and these feelings and I don't know how to make sense of it. There can be a lot of shame, especially for people of color, to go in and look for mental health services just because of being gaslit or being made to feel as if you asked for this and that you should know what you're doing, et cetera. But finding that match of a professional that can help you work through those things that are plaguing your mind. If you do have that trauma, you have to work through it, because it does pour out in motherhood.

Taylor Bryant:

The helicopter parenting. You, you know, if you experienced physical abuse or sexual abuse. Now that your child is here, you see some moms that just have to control everything. No, my kid can't sleep over here. I have to be a part of this, this, this. I have to check their phone. It comes off as over over protecting, but mom is just trying to make sure that that child doesn't go through what she went through. And sometimes when you have this kid and you're it's called fortune telling, when you think you're seeing the future, you don't know if you can handle that. So some moms might feel as if the best option is to get rid of my child or place them in the care of somebody else that can take care of them, because I fear that I'm not going to be good enough, or I fear that I'm going to harm my child, or I fear I'm going to repeat the same cycle and my kid is going to experience what I experienced that I'm not healed from yet.

Erica Rawls:

Right, yeah Well, this is really good. So what other like empowering message would you give to the person that's going through postpartum?

Taylor Bryant:

You're not alone. You're not alone. In the United States, there's one in eight women experience postpartum depression. Worldwide, it's one in 20. And if you break that down into different races for black women, 38% of new moms or moms again experience postpartum depression. I want to say it's 35% for Hispanic women, 13% for white women. I want to say it's 35% for Hispanic women, 13% for white women. So you're not alone. There's other women out there that share the same experience as you, and postpartum depression is treatable. So you don't have to hide in shame. You don't have to feel as if something is wrong with you. Nothing is wrong with you. It's what's happening to you.

Erica Rawls:

You can get that help and you can heal yourself Right, and how can someone get in contact with you, dr Bryant, oh, this is the great part right.

Taylor Bryant:

So I have a website, it's wwwEmpressEvolvecom, and then across all social media platforms on LinkedIn, facebook, instagram is Empress Evolve. And then, specifically, my group is Mommy Gang Trauma Recovery for the Postpartum Mom. If you feel like you want to take that next step, you can fill out an inquiry form on my website. I offer complimentary consultations for all moms. If you're a part of my group and Mommy Gang, I offer one free session.

Erica Rawls:

Wonderful, and then what we'll do, too, is we'll make sure that we have it in the description, okay, so it'd be easy for people to get get to it. So we'll have the link and also a link to your Facebook page. Yes, okay.

Taylor Bryant:

Okay, yeah.

Erica Rawls:

Wonderful. Thank you so much. Is there anything else that you wanted to share? I mean because we could go on and there's so many different layers that we can actually attack, but I know that, based on the Facebook posts that you had, this was something that you really wanted to do, and I was just excited about the opportunity. Yes, and I just want to make sure that we get the message out that you know is important.

Taylor Bryant:

I think you know, like you said, getting that message out, having the conversation. Motherhood is not easy. It's not easy. Let's join together and talk about it, be open, be vulnerable and share, Because my favorite saying that I learned is shame is like mold it grows in the dark. Don't let that insecurity or that inadequacy or that shame continue to grow in the dark and make you feel like you're not good enough, You're not meant to be a mother, All these negative thoughts that can come with that. Start sharing and speaking with other mommy friends and then you can all collectively heal together. It's about community.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, thank you, dr Barnett. Thank you for having me. You're so welcome. Hey, y'all, let's keep the conversation going, which she actually shared, which is something very profound, and I know there's a lot of women, as she stated with her statistics, that are suffering from this. You are not alone, was the message that I heard today, so we will be including the Facebook link in the description, as well as her website and contact information. If you are suffering or know of a loved one that is suffering from postpartum depression, get in contact with Dr Bryant. That's what she's here for, and until next time, y'all keep keeping it real.

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